1
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,001
So I'm going to talk about moon bounce if
you have any questions because I know a

2
00:00:14,001 --> 00:00:19,000
lot of you are not hams and usually I
give this talk for people who are radio

3
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:25,000
amateurs and telling them how
to become as radio amateurs

4
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,001
to make use of the moon.

5
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,000
You'll go to the communicating
place with my thoughts about that.

6
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,000
That's the way it is structured.

7
00:00:33,001 --> 00:00:39,000
But if you're not a radio amateur,
you'll still get an introduced reduction of

8
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:45,000
flavor of something that's really exciting
and that is that here on earth, you

9
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:49,001
send a signal off and touch the moon and
have that signal actually come back and

10
00:00:49,001 --> 00:00:51,001
hear it and receive it.

11
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:57,001
And most people find it really exciting,
the fact that we can touch something in

12
00:00:57,001 --> 00:01:01,001
space and come back and actually
control or see those effects.

13
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:07,000
So let me talk about the
introduction to this talk.

14
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,001
And this is basically what I'm going to do is

15
00:01:10,001 --> 00:01:12,000
I'm going to talk a little
bit about moon bounce.

16
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:19,000
What I'm doing right now,
I'm going to talk about the history, why it's a

17
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,001
technical challenge for those who
are radio amateurs or anybody.

18
00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:25,000
Talk about how to do it.

19
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,000
I'll probably go over and spend less
time on this and arrange some other time

20
00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:35,000
when I have a higher
technical audience that can

21
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,001
appreciate the more technical stuff.

22
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:43,001
So how it's done and what you need,
I'm going to try and go over quickly and then

23
00:01:43,001 --> 00:01:46,000
conclude and open up for questions.

24
00:01:46,001 --> 00:01:51,001
There's a lot of interesting
questions that come out of this.

25
00:01:52,001 --> 00:01:58,001
OK, so one of the first things
is interesting is that how

26
00:01:58,001 --> 00:02:05,000
EME, I use that word, that stands for Earth,
Moon, you send your signal to the

27
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,001
moon, Earth, the signal,
that's where EME comes from.

28
00:02:07,001 --> 00:02:11,001
So your signal, signal from the Earth,
you're sending the signal, I can use this

29
00:02:11,001 --> 00:02:16,001
diagram over here, the moon, the signal
gets reflected off the moon, just like

30
00:02:16,001 --> 00:02:22,000
you hear an echo, you have a big wall
and you say hello and the echo hits the

31
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,000
wall and comes back to you,
except the moon's a little further

32
00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:26,001
away than the wall.

33
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,000
They are.

34
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:36,001
And it's interesting, as someone who
teaches about electronics, electrical

35
00:02:36,001 --> 00:02:41,000
engineering,
how many things happened here in New Jersey?

36
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,000
I probably should ask how
many New Jerseyites are here?

37
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,001
I'm biased toward New Jersey.

38
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,001
A few of us here,
I was born in New Jersey, lived in New

39
00:02:48,001 --> 00:02:50,000
Jersey basically all my life.

40
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:56,000
And it's amazing, truly amazing how many
things were invented in New Jersey, not

41
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:02,000
just in electronics, but in general,
like the first submarine was done in New

42
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,001
Jersey, and we get to electronics,
the first everything was almost, it seems like

43
00:03:06,001 --> 00:03:09,000
that was done in New Jersey.

44
00:03:09,001 --> 00:03:16,000
And the first accepted radio signals
bounced off the moon, basically was, not

45
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,000
basically, it was done here in New Jersey.

46
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:25,001
Now there were reports of reception of
echoes before this, where people had

47
00:03:25,001 --> 00:03:28,000
observed that they heard something that
looked like it was coming from the moon,

48
00:03:28,001 --> 00:03:30,000
but they couldn't explain why this echo.

49
00:03:30,001 --> 00:03:36,000
But there was nothing really scientific,
definitive in terms of, you know, we're

50
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,000
going to set this up and we're going to
show that we received these signals off

51
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,001
the moon and gather scientific data.

52
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:48,001
That first occurred here,
occurred not too far away, over toward Red

53
00:03:48,001 --> 00:03:55,001
Bank or New Jersey, but it was [...
] we used to be called Fort Monmouth,

54
00:03:55,001 --> 00:04:00,000
but it wasn't really at Fort Monmouth,
close by it was in the Evans, they called

55
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:06,000
the Evans area,
where they had a big antenna there, which was

56
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:11,001
then very close to the amateur, which we
referred to as the two-meter band, those

57
00:04:11,001 --> 00:04:15,001
of you that are hams for radio amateurs,
but at that

58
00:04:15,001 --> 00:04:17,000
time the two-meter band didn't exist.

59
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:23,000
Before World War II, there was the
two-and-a-half meter band, it was around 115

60
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,000
megahertz,
and that's where the experiments were done.

61
00:04:25,001 --> 00:04:29,001
The person who was in charge of the
experiments, a lot of the people there were

62
00:04:29,001 --> 00:04:35,001
all radio amateurs, so moon bounces
had this thread of amateur radio

63
00:04:35,001 --> 00:04:37,001
in it, even from the very beginning.

64
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,001
Now there was another set of experiments
that occurred almost in parallel with

65
00:04:42,001 --> 00:04:48,001
the experiments that we did, which I found
always very fascinating, I should say.

66
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:54,000
These experiments were done in Hungary,
a group in Hungary, and it was done at a

67
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:59,000
frequency that was lower than two meters,
but they set up an antenna, or a wire

68
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,001
type of antenna, and what they did is they
had a transmitter, and they would turn

69
00:05:03,001 --> 00:05:07,001
the transmitter on, they would send the
signal to the moon, and then they would

70
00:05:07,001 --> 00:05:11,000
listen for that signal
coming back from the moon.

71
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:15,001
Now, because of the frequency they operated at,
the power, they couldn't detect

72
00:05:15,001 --> 00:05:22,000
that signal, but what they did is they
repeated this again and again and again,

73
00:05:22,001 --> 00:05:28,001
and they listened to, every time they did it,
they had another switch here, and

74
00:05:28,001 --> 00:05:30,000
here I'm getting a little bit technical.

75
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:31,001
Am I okay?

76
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,001
I don't know, you should tell me,
I think I'm okay.

77
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,000
Is it okay here in the room?

78
00:05:38,001 --> 00:05:39,001
Am I okay?

79
00:05:39,001 --> 00:05:40,001
No, I'm not okay.

80
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,001
So, what they did is they used this
thing that basically stored charge.

81
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,000
So, if the signal was strong, they would
store a piece of that charge, and you

82
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:58,001
call these things capacitors,
if any of you had physics or in high school or

83
00:05:58,001 --> 00:06:00,000
things like that, and they'd switch.

84
00:06:01,001 --> 00:06:04,001
So, it was kind of digital, they switched
from one capacitor, one second, and the

85
00:06:04,001 --> 00:06:07,000
other capacitor next second,
and they switch around.

86
00:06:07,001 --> 00:06:11,001
It turns out that echoes from the moon,
the moon has a certain distance, radio

87
00:06:11,001 --> 00:06:15,000
signals or electromagnetic waves
travel at the speed of light,

88
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,000
so they go at a fixed amount.

89
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,001
So, we can predict when we're going to
have an echo from the moon, because we

90
00:06:20,001 --> 00:06:22,000
know how far the moon is away, and it turns

91
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,000
out it's about two and a half seconds.

92
00:06:24,001 --> 00:06:29,001
So, if they're doing this and they're
looking at the charge or the voltage that's

93
00:06:29,001 --> 00:06:34,000
on the capacitor, the capacitor,
that's two and a half seconds, right, after

94
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,001
this should have a big peak on that.

95
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,000
And that's exactly what happens.

96
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,001
If you do this with a radar system,
you send a pulse out in the radar signal,

97
00:06:43,001 --> 00:06:47,000
you'll see two and a half seconds later,
you should have a big peak.

98
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:52,001
They, of course, are making use of
what we call integration, repeated

99
00:06:52,001 --> 00:06:57,000
transmissions, and they're adding these up,
the signals that are random noise,

100
00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,000
they're going to average out to zero,
but where the signal comes back, it can

101
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,001
add, and it adds up.

102
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,001
And if they do this enough times,
they get a peak, and they also show, it was

103
00:07:05,001 --> 00:07:10,001
about the same time that you can argue
about who did it first, because they

104
00:07:10,001 --> 00:07:13,001
really took months, literally months, when they

105
00:07:13,001 --> 00:07:15,000
were doing this, to do this experiment.

106
00:07:15,001 --> 00:07:20,000
But they also showed that you
positively got signals from the moon.

107
00:07:20,001 --> 00:07:23,001
Now, one of the fascinating things,
because I remember when I was first reading

108
00:07:23,001 --> 00:07:28,000
about this, I think I was in high school,
or on that age, I was trying to figure

109
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:34,001
out what they were doing, because they
talked about using hydrogen drives.

110
00:07:35,001 --> 00:07:39,000
Now, anyone in high school, remember high
school, not that one, though, any of

111
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,001
you, taking chemistry in high school?

112
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:41,001
Okay.

113
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,000
What did you do with hydrogen?

114
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:44,001
Thank you.

115
00:07:45,001 --> 00:07:47,000
Do you want to experiment with hydrogen?

116
00:07:47,001 --> 00:07:48,000
No way.

117
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:49,001
No way.

118
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,000
You probably know.

119
00:07:51,001 --> 00:07:51,001
[...]

120
00:07:52,001 --> 00:07:56,000
You do an experiment, same with
experiments in high school with hydrogen?

121
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,000
Remember the hydrolysis of hydrogen?

122
00:07:59,001 --> 00:08:00,001
I certainly would not problem.

123
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:07,001
Yeah, they would take, and they would
take and put two electrodes in water, and

124
00:08:07,001 --> 00:08:10,001
the water would separate and
look for hydrogen in oxygen.

125
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,000
Water is H2O.

126
00:08:12,001 --> 00:08:15,001
One of that, H2O, H2O number.

127
00:08:16,001 --> 00:08:20,001
We have a correct tendency with that,
so you can teach on that.

128
00:08:20,001 --> 00:08:21,001
But they would do that.

129
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:22,000
[...]

130
00:08:22,001 --> 00:08:26,000
Well, this group basically did the same thing.

131
00:08:26,001 --> 00:08:31,001
At each one of these points where they
have each one of these, suppose I call

132
00:08:31,001 --> 00:08:38,001
them capacitors, they had a hydrolysis,
a couple of jars, where the electrodes

133
00:08:38,001 --> 00:08:43,000
went into the water, and then they
collected the gases that came off of that.

134
00:08:43,001 --> 00:08:43,001
Okay.

135
00:08:43,001 --> 00:08:49,001
And then they showed that they had the
most hydrogen and oxygen at the jar,

136
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,000
where there were two and a half seconds later.

137
00:08:53,001 --> 00:08:57,001
You can see that they wanted to,
that seems like they have these things full.

138
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,000
Do you go over and experiment
in the feeding boxes?

139
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,001
Well, I wouldn't want to do that.

140
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,000
[...] and doubts.

141
00:09:05,001 --> 00:09:08,001
I'm sure they have a team there.

142
00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,001
They were pretty smart.

143
00:09:11,001 --> 00:09:16,001
The problem back when they were doing
this in the 40s is that capacitors don't

144
00:09:16,001 --> 00:09:20,000
hold their charge over a long, long time.

145
00:09:20,001 --> 00:09:24,001
They were doing this over weeks and months,
and the capacitors that had available

146
00:09:24,001 --> 00:09:28,000
were starting to lose the voltage they have.

147
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,000
But when you go with hydrolysis,
the gas doesn't go quite the same.

148
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,001
So they got around the
problem of the leakage of

149
00:09:37,001 --> 00:09:39,000
that you have in the capacitors' life.

150
00:09:39,001 --> 00:09:40,001
And that's why they did it.

151
00:09:40,001 --> 00:09:45,000
I always found that because it shows
from an engineering point of view,

152
00:09:45,001 --> 00:09:47,000
engineering's really solving problems.

153
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,000
And these people who did this, developed
this experiment, they figured out how to

154
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:59,000
solve the problem of detecting radio
signals that came back from the moon and

155
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:04,000
with limited, very limited facilities to do it,
like a hydrogen jar, some long

156
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,001
wires, a limited transmitter.

157
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,001
And they were able to show it.

158
00:10:07,001 --> 00:10:12,000
Here in the US, we had a big,
big antenna, high power transmitter.

159
00:10:12,001 --> 00:10:17,001
In either case, we showed that signals
were coming back from the moon.

160
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,001
Okay, now from an amateur point of view,
because remember I'm

161
00:10:24,001 --> 00:10:26,001
talking about amateurs, not the government.

162
00:10:27,001 --> 00:10:31,001
And even though the amateurs were there
in the government, amateurs were also

163
00:10:31,001 --> 00:10:35,001
very early interested in this
thing really very early on.

164
00:10:35,001 --> 00:10:40,000
Literally, as soon as people announced
that they were getting echoes from the

165
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,000
moon, amateur said,
can we use this to communicate further?

166
00:10:44,001 --> 00:10:50,001
One of the things that amateur radio is
interested in always is to do something

167
00:10:50,001 --> 00:10:53,001
first, to do something over longer distances.

168
00:10:54,000 --> 00:11:00,000
And at that time in particular,
people could not communicate very far

169
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,001
at the higher frequency.

170
00:11:01,001 --> 00:11:06,000
You have the short wave bands where
the signals bounce off the ionist.

171
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,001
As you go higher in frequency, there's always

172
00:11:08,001 --> 00:11:10,001
people who want to do something different.

173
00:11:10,001 --> 00:11:14,000
You go higher in frequency,
people wanted to talk further and further.

174
00:11:14,001 --> 00:11:16,001
They couldn't talk very far, just the signals

175
00:11:16,001 --> 00:11:18,001
basically went right through the atoms.

176
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,000
It turns out there's some other effects.

177
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,000
I had more time here.

178
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,001
I talked about different types of energy [...]

179
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,000
But in fact, in those days, it worked 50 miles.

180
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,000
People were going, I work 50 miles.

181
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,000
That's fantastic.

182
00:11:33,001 --> 00:11:38,000
So they were looking at ways they could
talk further, communicate further.

183
00:11:38,001 --> 00:11:41,001
And if you send the signal to the moon
and the signal is reflected back to the

184
00:11:41,001 --> 00:11:45,001
moon, you can literally, any place they
can see the moon and where the signal is

185
00:11:45,001 --> 00:11:47,000
reflected back, you can communicate.

186
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,000
You can communicate all over the world
at these very high frequencies, but

187
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,000
normally you can only talk a few miles.

188
00:11:53,001 --> 00:11:58,001
And so that's where the interest was in
amateur radio because they wanted to

189
00:11:58,001 --> 00:12:02,001
communicate with further places,
have the record for the longest distance, but

190
00:12:02,001 --> 00:12:05,000
most stations worked all over the world.

191
00:12:05,001 --> 00:12:09,000
These are the things that
amateur radio operators play at.

192
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,000
That's the games that they play at.

193
00:12:12,001 --> 00:12:19,001
And echoes were first reported by
amateur radio operators. 1946 was

194
00:12:19,001 --> 00:12:25,000
when the signals were first
reported here in New Jersey.

195
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,001
In 1953, we had a group, and also that
group was in New Jersey interestingly,

196
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,000
just a coincidence,
who reported having echoes from the

197
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,001
moon in 1953.

198
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,001
But there are certain
rules when you communicate

199
00:12:41,001 --> 00:12:43,001
and you've got to send the signal.

200
00:12:43,001 --> 00:12:44,001
It's got to be heard.

201
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,001
The signal's got to be sent back.

202
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,000
You pull this thing up, QSO,
two-way communications.

203
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:56,001
And to make a contact or QSO in amateur radio,
you've got to meet these rules of

204
00:12:56,001 --> 00:13:01,001
being able to have the signal you see,
sending the information back that is

205
00:13:01,001 --> 00:13:06,000
unknown at the other side, confirming that
you got that information and having it

206
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:07,001
going back the other way.

207
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:14,000
And the group that was playing
around with EME back in 1953

208
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,001
never made a QSO.

209
00:13:15,001 --> 00:13:21,001
In fact, people questioned that that
was being done at the two-meter amateur

210
00:13:21,001 --> 00:13:26,000
radio band, which existed after World War II,
two-meter amateur radio band.

211
00:13:26,001 --> 00:13:30,001
One of the most popular radio bands
in the world today is two meters.

212
00:13:31,001 --> 00:13:35,001
You see all these handy talkies, and you're
taking the classes, you end up with a

213
00:13:35,001 --> 00:13:38,000
two-meter transverter and things like that.

214
00:13:38,001 --> 00:13:40,000
Inexpensive equipment all around.

215
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,000
So this was the band where this was going on.

216
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:47,001
The first two-way communications
occurred in 1960.

217
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,000
It was between Massachusetts and California.

218
00:13:52,001 --> 00:13:56,000
And the frequency was 1,296 megahertz.

219
00:13:56,001 --> 00:13:59,001
So that's about 10 times the
frequency of two meters.

220
00:14:00,001 --> 00:14:00,001
They did it.

221
00:14:01,001 --> 00:14:03,001
And I was involved in this.

222
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,000
And again, I don't want to spend too much time,
but when I was in high school, I

223
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:13,001
got interested in building antennas,
what was called the stress dish.

224
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,000
And that brought me interested in EME.

225
00:14:18,001 --> 00:14:24,001
And I actually built the stress dish when
I was in high school, which was damaged

226
00:14:24,001 --> 00:14:30,000
when my first day in
college we had a hurricane.

227
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,000
And again, I don't want to go into the details,
but I've been interested

228
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,001
in this from going back.

229
00:14:35,001 --> 00:14:38,000
I graduated in high school.
I shouldn't say this.

230
00:14:38,001 --> 00:14:44,001
It tells you how old I am, but in 1960,
the same year that that two-way EME

231
00:14:44,001 --> 00:14:46,001
communications was achieved.

232
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,001
And at that time,
there was a fellow by name of Sam Harris.

233
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,000
And for the younger groups over here,
he was writing a magazine

234
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,001
column every month.

235
00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,000
And he was like my idol.

236
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:06,000
You know, it was really incredible

237
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,001
fellow at that time.

238
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:15,001
And his wife was also involved,
Helen Harris, in amateur radio.

239
00:15:15,001 --> 00:15:19,000
So it wasn't just an all-male
thing even back then.

240
00:15:19,001 --> 00:15:21,001
I remember her call was W1HOY.

241
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,001
Anyhow, that was a very exciting time in 1960.

242
00:15:30,001 --> 00:15:36,001
And I got involved with this,
not to blow my horn or anything, but in 1976,

243
00:15:36,001 --> 00:15:42,000
I was the first person to communicate
with all continents by EME.

244
00:15:42,001 --> 00:15:46,001
I did that up at 432 megahertz.

245
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,001
There was a group at 144, so I felt
really good, because I beat out the 144.

246
00:15:51,001 --> 00:15:58,001
I did it at a higher frequency than the
predominant lower frequency band, which

247
00:15:58,001 --> 00:16:02,000
was supposedly easier to do in 1976.

248
00:16:02,001 --> 00:16:05,000
And I got a lot of publicity from it,
a lot of fun.

249
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,001
And I've been involved
with EME since that time.

250
00:16:09,001 --> 00:16:12,000
And so this gives you kind of a timeframe.

251
00:16:12,001 --> 00:16:14,000
And you go higher in frequency.

252
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,000
We were talking about the wavelength.

253
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,001
The antennas get smaller
and smaller and smaller.

254
00:16:19,001 --> 00:16:23,001
At high frequencies, for those of you who
aren't in amateur radio, you're talking

255
00:16:23,001 --> 00:16:29,001
about antennas that are in feet, like one
of the most popular bands for shortwave

256
00:16:29,001 --> 00:16:31,001
amateur radio is 20 meters.

257
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,001
And 20 meters, you know how long that is,
because you know how long a meter is,

258
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,001
over 3.5 feet, right?

259
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,001
So if we say it's like 3 feet,
20 meters, the wavelength there is about

260
00:16:41,001 --> 00:16:43,000
60 feet, okay?

261
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,001
They give you a comparison.

262
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:51,000
When you talk about 432, that's 500 megahertz.

263
00:16:51,001 --> 00:16:55,000
And the wavelength is a couple feet, okay?

264
00:16:55,001 --> 00:16:57,001
About a couple feet in size.

265
00:16:57,001 --> 00:17:01,000
So you're going from 60 feet
to a couple feet in size.

266
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,001
And by the time you get to 10 gigahertz,
this is you're getting up into the

267
00:17:05,001 --> 00:17:07,001
real microwave frequencies.

268
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,000
A wavelength is 3 centimeters.

269
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,000
It's about that long.

270
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,000
That's the wavelength.

271
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,001
So you think about the difference.

272
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,000
The equipment, the circuitry,
everything becomes very sensitive to distance.

273
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:26,001
And they push the limits of
this up to 47 gigahertz.

274
00:17:26,001 --> 00:17:29,000
So that's almost five times higher.

275
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,001
So it'd be one-fifth of
that 3 centimeters in 2002.

276
00:17:34,001 --> 00:17:39,000
And there really hasn't been
a lot of progress since then.

277
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:45,000
There's some interest in 87 gigahertz,
but there's really not been full two-way

278
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,001
communications yet in that frequency range.

279
00:17:49,001 --> 00:17:52,000
So that gives you a little background.

280
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,000
And I got to look at my time because
I'm famous for running over time.

281
00:17:56,001 --> 00:17:57,001
I think I'm over here.

282
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,001
This period ends at, anyone know when I

283
00:18:02,001 --> 00:18:05,001
end? 330.

284
00:18:06,001 --> 00:18:06,001
Okay.

285
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,000
So I got to get done well before that there.

286
00:18:10,001 --> 00:18:11,001
Don't let me go over.

287
00:18:12,001 --> 00:18:16,001
If I was in a class, I would be sure,
you know, when you're in a class and you

288
00:18:16,001 --> 00:18:21,001
get close to the ending time,
you hear this rustling, this background noise.

289
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,001
You know, you don't need a clock.

290
00:18:24,001 --> 00:18:30,000
You know that your time is over,
no matter how exciting or what you're talking

291
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,001
about or how important it is.

292
00:18:31,001 --> 00:18:36,001
Anyhow, talking about exciting,
why moon bounce?

293
00:18:36,001 --> 00:18:37,000
It's exciting.

294
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,000
And even if you're an on-ham,
it's exciting this concept of

295
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,001
sending signals off the moon.

296
00:18:43,001 --> 00:18:47,001
In amateur radio,
people like to collect work, rare countries.

297
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:53,000
You know, you come home and say to your wife,
you know, I worked in India today

298
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,001
and she says, oh, that's nice.

299
00:18:54,001 --> 00:18:55,000
What else?

300
00:18:56,001 --> 00:19:01,000
But this is a lot of what amateur's radio
is involved with, whether you're at

301
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,000
high frequencies, one of the most
competitive fields in high frequencies,

302
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,000
collecting work in different countries.

303
00:19:07,001 --> 00:19:12,001
When you have people who go out to islands
that are little walks and they spend

304
00:19:12,001 --> 00:19:18,000
$100,000 trying to get a helicopter to
get out there, sitting their equipment

305
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,001
up, and they work 50,000 people.

306
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,001
Literally, I'm not exaggerating.

307
00:19:21,001 --> 00:19:25,000
Those of you who operate at HF,
no, I'm not exaggerating.

308
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,001
There's a great, great deal of interest
because they want to get one more country

309
00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:32,000
to their list and stay at
the top of the XCC list.

310
00:19:32,001 --> 00:19:38,000
Well, this kind of mentality has gone
up in the frequencies, and people are

311
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,001
interested in the higher
frequencies of working all

312
00:19:41,001 --> 00:19:43,000
around the world, collecting countries.

313
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:48,001
I'm one of the fortunate people to have
the XCC, which stands for working in 100

314
00:19:48,001 --> 00:19:53,000
different countries,
at 70 centimeters and 1296.

315
00:19:53,001 --> 00:19:58,001
I wasn't first,
but I was in the top three in those

316
00:19:58,001 --> 00:20:01,001
categories of working different countries.

317
00:20:01,001 --> 00:20:03,001
It's really competitive and interesting.

318
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,000
It's also interesting because
you can go to different places.

319
00:20:08,001 --> 00:20:10,000
I've certainly done that.

320
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,000
I've done my own traveling and
set up equipment portable.

321
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,000
This shows a picture of me
at home with equipment.

322
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:24,000
This shows me actually in St.
Thomas, the Virgin Islands, where I had

323
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:30,000
a business trip and I went out and we
set up an antenna to work bounce signals

324
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,000
off the moon and work people
there a few years ago.

325
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:41,001
If you're an amateur, by going on Moonbounce,
it's a way, if you operate at the

326
00:20:41,001 --> 00:20:47,000
higher, these higher microwave or VHF
frequencies, so way of you adding more

327
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,001
places and getting more awards
if you collect them for working

328
00:20:51,001 --> 00:20:53,001
different distances.

329
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,000
We look at the challenge.

330
00:20:58,001 --> 00:21:03,000
This talks about the technical
challenge of working Moonbounce.

331
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,001
That you need, obviously, just like I
showed you in the beginning, you transmit a

332
00:21:11,001 --> 00:21:16,000
receiver, you transmit the signal up to
the moon, and then if you're listening

333
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:21,000
for echoes, about two and a half seconds later,
you flip this to the receive

334
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,000
side,
you go on the sun and see if you can hear the

335
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,000
echoes coming back from the moon.

336
00:21:25,001 --> 00:21:31,001
If you're communicating with a station,
you send whatever your communications,

337
00:21:31,001 --> 00:21:36,001
you send out a call for that station,
and the station is identifier, is call

338
00:21:36,001 --> 00:21:41,001
letters, just like my call
letters are K2UIH on my hat here.

339
00:21:43,001 --> 00:21:48,000
And the other station hears my
signal being sent up to the moon.

340
00:21:48,001 --> 00:21:53,000
He knows that when he stops hearing me,
it's going to take two and a half seconds

341
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:58,001
for him to respond to me because he
responds immediately, there's a two and a

342
00:21:58,001 --> 00:22:01,000
half seconds of time getting up there.

343
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,001
And then if he immediately responds,
it's going to take the other half of that

344
00:22:05,001 --> 00:22:10,000
time, it's really two and a half seconds
round trip for me to hear him coming

345
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,001
back, can't occur instantaneously.

346
00:22:12,001 --> 00:22:17,001
And we could talk a lot about this because
the person speaking here before is

347
00:22:17,001 --> 00:22:20,001
talking about space communications
and things like that.

348
00:22:20,001 --> 00:22:27,000
And some of the issues in space
communication and using satellites and

349
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:33,000
using the moon is a delay in communicating
up to a satellite for the moon, which

350
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,000
is further away than most of the
satellites are, and getting back

351
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,000
to it, that delay.

352
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,001
And it's really interesting.

353
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,000
I could go on and talk about
that because you hear these

354
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,001
things about drones, right?

355
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,000
You know about a drone,
everyone knows what a drone is, right?

356
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,001
Well, someone's piloting that drone usually,
right?

357
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:57,000
But the signal has to get from the pilot
to the drone, usually that goes through

358
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,000
a satellite to the drone,
and the control signal gets back.

359
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,000
So that drone really has to
do a lot of stuff on its own.

360
00:23:03,001 --> 00:23:08,000
And when you start talking about doing
robots in space, the two and a half

361
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:13,001
seconds, the moon is pretty, pretty,
how say, benign, short, compared to if

362
00:23:13,001 --> 00:23:17,000
you're trying to control a robot
around Jupiter, you're talking about

363
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,001
eight minutes or so.

364
00:23:18,001 --> 00:23:21,001
The signal just to get there.
So it's going to be eight

365
00:23:21,001 --> 00:23:23,000
and eight or 16 minutes to get back.

366
00:23:23,001 --> 00:23:25,001
So this all gets into it.

367
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,000
There's also an issue of
what we call path loss.

368
00:23:29,001 --> 00:23:34,000
And I'm not going to spend some time
and equations here, but there's a huge

369
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,000
amount of path loss.

370
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:42,001
Now, again, I love to talk about
physics and why things happen.

371
00:23:42,001 --> 00:23:46,001
And people think that there's
loss in sending electromagnetic

372
00:23:46,001 --> 00:23:48,001
electromagnetic waves in space.

373
00:23:49,001 --> 00:23:52,000
The truth is there's not. There's no loss.

374
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,001
The incentive signal out in space is lost.

375
00:23:55,001 --> 00:24:00,000
This is why we can see light from these,
you know, quasi stellar objects that

376
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:06,000
are, you know, not millions,
but billions of light years away, away, because

377
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,000
there's really no attenuation in space.

378
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,001
This is an attenuated electromagnetic waves.
So you say why do

379
00:24:14,001 --> 00:24:16,000
electromagnetic waves get weaker?

380
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,000
Anyone know why electromagnetic
waves get weaker?

381
00:24:21,001 --> 00:24:24,001
No, because I'm saying the atmosphere,
or there is a loss.

382
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,000
Your atmosphere, the faucet atmosphere is thin.

383
00:24:27,001 --> 00:24:30,000
And if you go up in frequency,
our atmosphere becomes transparent.

384
00:24:30,001 --> 00:24:35,001
You go lower in frequency,
this wave spread out. Exactly.

385
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,001
Think about it. You've got a flashlight.

386
00:24:37,001 --> 00:24:39,001
You see that flashlight being spread out.

387
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,000
And the further away you are,
the more spread out it is.

388
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:48,000
And if you've got a finite side antenna,
or a finite side linear eyeball, right,

389
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,001
finite sides,
you only pick up a small percentage.

390
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,000
The further away you are, the less percentage.

391
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,001
Again, that's what's called square wall.

392
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,000
Because it's everything, a lot of things,
you see the square wall, and it's

393
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,000
really just the signal spreading out.

394
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,000
And so as you go twice the distance away,
you only get one fourth of

395
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,000
the energy because it's spread out on you.

396
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,000
And the further you go,
the less energy that you get.

397
00:25:13,001 --> 00:25:15,001
So that's where this path loss comes from.

398
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,000
And these numbers that I have
here are very large because

399
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,000
the signal goes out, it's spread.

400
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:27,001
It hits the moon, about 6%
of the energy comes back off the moon.

401
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,001
And that has to do with the material.

402
00:25:29,001 --> 00:25:33,001
The moon is out, how smooth it is,
how flat it is, but roughly 6%.

403
00:25:33,001 --> 00:25:38,000
But then that signal now is spread
out again when it comes back.

404
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,000
So it's spreading out when
it goes the opposite way.

405
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,001
And it's worse than if you
went twice the distance.

406
00:25:44,001 --> 00:25:47,000
Twice the distance you were already elevated.

407
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:53,000
Now, if the moon, though it's not a point,
it still causes a

408
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,001
re-spreading of the signal.

409
00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:00,000
Like you're starting out at a point,
but it affects it and it lowers the loss.

410
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,001
So it's like having a signal that you send out,
and then you re-send the

411
00:26:04,001 --> 00:26:06,000
energy you have out again.

412
00:26:06,001 --> 00:26:11,001
So the spreading is a lot worse than if
you went twice the distance to the moon,

413
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,001
which is what you're doing
to the moon and back.

414
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,001
So you get more path loss.

415
00:26:15,001 --> 00:26:18,000
Anyhow, there's huge path loss.

416
00:26:18,001 --> 00:26:22,000
And this is a great thing if you
like the challenge, because it

417
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,001
means the signal is really strong.

418
00:26:24,001 --> 00:26:27,000
And according to this,
the higher in frequency you go,

419
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000
it looks like the signal is weaker.

420
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:36,000
But it isn't actually weaker because the

421
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:42,001
path loss equation is built on this
concept of having a finite sizing attempt.

422
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,000
And when you go up in frequency,
the antenna gets spoiled.

423
00:26:48,001 --> 00:26:51,000
So the antenna intercepts less energy.

424
00:26:51,001 --> 00:26:54,000
So your path loss appears to go back up.

425
00:26:54,001 --> 00:26:59,001
If you have two antennas or two systems
that are the same size as you go up in

426
00:26:59,001 --> 00:27:01,000
frequency, you maintain that size.

427
00:27:01,001 --> 00:27:05,000
Like with a dish, you have a dish
antenna receiving and transmitting.

428
00:27:05,001 --> 00:27:09,000
So when you put a dish, as you go higher
in frequency, it's still that same

429
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,000
number diameter dish, right?

430
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000
So it intercepts the same amount of energy.

431
00:27:14,001 --> 00:27:20,000
You find out that your path loss actually
gets less, interestingly, as you

432
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,000
go higher in frequency.

433
00:27:22,001 --> 00:27:29,000
Because you're intercepting the same
amount of energy on the received side,

434
00:27:29,001 --> 00:27:32,000
but on the transmit side,
the beam becomes smaller.

435
00:27:32,001 --> 00:27:35,000
I don't want to spend too much time on it.

436
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:41,000
I like talking about physics, and you'll
see that a very interesting experiment

437
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,001
to take is take the sun and make up
a pinhole like a pinhole camera.

438
00:27:46,001 --> 00:27:50,000
Make a pinhole for a sheet of paper.
The sun is all contaminated and [...]

439
00:27:50,001 --> 00:27:52,001
So the ratings are parallel
about time you get here.

440
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000
They go to the pinhole,
they start spreading out.

441
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,001
And the amount of spreading depends
on the diameter of the pinhole.

442
00:28:00,001 --> 00:28:05,000
The pinhole is very big.
You don't see any spread. As the pinhole gets

443
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,000
smaller, you get spreading.

444
00:28:07,001 --> 00:28:11,001
So the gains is directly related
to the gain of an antenna.

445
00:28:11,001 --> 00:28:15,000
The gain of the antenna comes from the
fact that it's concentrating the energy.

446
00:28:15,001 --> 00:28:17,001
It's not sending the energy
into the corrections.

447
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,000
And that's directly related to the
size of the radiating structure.

448
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,001
And the higher frequency,
when you look at this, the narrower the beam is

449
00:28:28,001 --> 00:28:31,000
on the transmitting side.

450
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,001
But on the received side, you're still
receiving the same amount of energy.

451
00:28:33,001 --> 00:28:36,000
So as you go higher in frequency,
there's less path loss.

452
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000
So there's advantages to
going higher in frequency.

453
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,001
Now, there are other practical limitations.

454
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,001
But let me go on. I don't want to,
as I said, I didn't want to get too

455
00:28:44,001 --> 00:28:48,000
complicated here to involve.

456
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,001
We can talk about the technical challenge.

457
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,001
You want the biggest antenna
you can possibly have.

458
00:28:54,001 --> 00:28:58,000
This happens to be a picture of
the antenna I have in my house.

459
00:28:58,001 --> 00:29:03,001
I've had that up for about 50 years since 1973.

460
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,000
Amazing. That hasn't fallen on me yet.

461
00:29:09,001 --> 00:29:10,001
But it's still there.

462
00:29:12,001 --> 00:29:15,001
That was the largest antenna I
could get my hands on back then.

463
00:29:15,001 --> 00:29:18,001
I actually came from Bell Labs.
They were cutting it up.

464
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,000
And I went there with a bunch of students
and we moved it back to my house.

465
00:29:23,001 --> 00:29:25,000
And then we figured out how to mount it.

466
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,000
You want the highest power, obviously,
you can have now as an amateur, we're

467
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,001
limited by laws to how high a power we have.

468
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,001
But as you go higher in frequency,
it does become more difficult to generate

469
00:29:37,001 --> 00:29:40,001
those high powers technically.

470
00:29:41,001 --> 00:29:43,001
And oops, I skipped over something here.

471
00:29:45,001 --> 00:29:49,001
You want to have a sensitive
receiver as possible.

472
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:56,000
And it turns out, I'm going to get
technical here, that when you see a signal,

473
00:29:56,001 --> 00:30:01,000
okay, the thing that limits you
is the noise that's present.

474
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,001
Because if the signal is higher than the noise,
then you can hear it.

475
00:30:06,001 --> 00:30:08,001
But the signal is lower than the noise you can.

476
00:30:08,001 --> 00:30:11,001
And so what you want to do is
you want to have the lowest

477
00:30:11,001 --> 00:30:13,001
noise contribution you have.

478
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:19,001
A part of that noise is contributed
by what comes in from space.

479
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,000
[...] is your antenna,
your signal is coming in the antenna, noise

480
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,000
from space is coming in the antenna.

481
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,000
And that's frequency dependent.

482
00:30:27,001 --> 00:30:33,001
It turns out that some plays from around
500 megahertz up to around, starting in

483
00:30:33,001 --> 00:30:37,001
bigger hertz to around 10 megahertz
and even a little higher.

484
00:30:37,001 --> 00:30:41,001
There's very little noise if you're doing it.

485
00:30:41,001 --> 00:30:47,000
This is really noise, positive noise,
noise that comes in from radio

486
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,001
stars, things like that.

487
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,000
And there's very little noise contributed.

488
00:30:51,001 --> 00:30:52,000
It's like that.

489
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,001
It's referred to as a radio signal.

490
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,001
So your noise can be an antenna.

491
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,001
There's some,
but it's really developed and low.

492
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,000
But most of the noise contributed
by what used to amplify the signal.

493
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:11,000
And what you want to do is design that
receiver so it contributes as little

494
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,000
noise as you possibly can.

495
00:31:14,001 --> 00:31:16,000
And again, this is a topic we could get into.

496
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:23,001
Radio astronomers pull their receivers
down to almost absolute zero because it

497
00:31:23,001 --> 00:31:26,001
turns out that noise depends on temperature.

498
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,001
And the higher the temperature something's at,
the more the

499
00:31:30,001 --> 00:31:32,000
electrons move around.

500
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,000
Second law of thermodynamics,
the more noise you get.

501
00:31:41,001 --> 00:31:46,000
So anyhow, you want to get the
lowest possible noise contribution.

502
00:31:47,001 --> 00:31:48,001
Excuse me.

503
00:31:49,001 --> 00:31:51,000
Yeah, K T.

504
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,000
I usually say K T B.

505
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,001
You'll get the ultimate's constant.

506
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,000
You'll get that physics,
the temperature that you're at,

507
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,000
and the bandwidth you're listening over.

508
00:32:01,001 --> 00:32:03,001
That you have some control over.

509
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,000
But it's the reason if you're sending a
lot of information, you have to have a

510
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,001
lot of bandwidth to do that.

511
00:32:11,001 --> 00:32:16,000
And so what is the take?

512
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,001
And I just say if you want to be a big gun,
you've got to do all of this.

513
00:32:21,001 --> 00:32:25,000
You can even talk in terms of single sideband.

514
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:32,000
But most of the operation today on
Moonbounce is being done digitally.

515
00:32:32,001 --> 00:32:35,000
People have developed digital software.

516
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:40,000
One fellow in particular also is in New Jersey,
interestingly a lot.

517
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,001
By the name of Joe Taylor,
one of my neighbors literally.

518
00:32:44,001 --> 00:32:46,000
And he has a Nobel Prize.

519
00:32:46,001 --> 00:32:51,000
But when he's not working on his Nobel
Prize in physics, he spends time

520
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,001
developing software for radio amateurs.

521
00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:00,001
And he's developed the whole technique
to digitally communicate, but gives you

522
00:33:00,001 --> 00:33:04,000
effectively very,
very narrow bandwidth to communicate and can

523
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,001
become very efficient.

524
00:33:05,001 --> 00:33:08,000
More efficient than even using your ears.

525
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,000
And the gold standard was Morse code.

526
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,000
You send Morse code,
you make the signal very narrow.

527
00:33:13,001 --> 00:33:14,000
You can listen to it.

528
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,000
People are very good.

529
00:33:15,001 --> 00:33:20,001
But if you use digital processing techniques
today, you can even beat what you do

530
00:33:20,001 --> 00:33:26,000
with a Morse code reception,
which as it used to be, the gold standard of

531
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,001
receiving the signals.

532
00:33:27,001 --> 00:33:34,001
And much of the EME operation today,
a large percentage of it is done using

533
00:33:34,001 --> 00:33:38,000
these digital techniques
at this particular time.

534
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,001
But there's still people who
like doing things the hard way.

535
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,000
You're always going to have that.

536
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,001
And the hard way can be a challenge
that will make contacts via CW.

537
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,001
And I should say, hams know what I mean.

538
00:33:50,001 --> 00:33:51,000
Does anyone know?

539
00:33:51,001 --> 00:33:53,000
A lot of you don't know what I mean by CW.

540
00:33:53,001 --> 00:33:57,001
CW is the thing that you hear da,
da, da, da, da, da, for the key.

541
00:33:58,001 --> 00:33:59,001
That's called CW.

542
00:33:59,001 --> 00:34:00,001
And it may sound strange.

543
00:34:01,001 --> 00:34:05,000
Why is it called CW?

544
00:34:05,001 --> 00:34:11,001
And it goes back historically when they
first started to send radio signals, they

545
00:34:11,001 --> 00:34:13,001
send them by a technique called squat.

546
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,001
They discovered that when you have a squat,
jump,

547
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,001
to be able to produce the squat.

548
00:34:19,001 --> 00:34:22,000
And the [...] the waves.

549
00:34:22,001 --> 00:34:23,000
And it was all waves.

550
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000
But that's how, that's what Mark Honely [...]

551
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,000
He was producing the squat
transmitter and using [...]

552
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,000
But it was basically all frequencies
coming out of the transmitter.

553
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,000
It was a very noisy phenomenon.

554
00:34:37,001 --> 00:34:41,001
And that's how radio began
using squat transmission.

555
00:34:41,001 --> 00:34:47,000
And so people realized that if
you could send a sinusoidal wave,

556
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,001
this continuous tone, and that's where it
comes from, CW, continuous wave, you're

557
00:34:53,001 --> 00:34:56,001
sending a nice, continuous, sinusoidal signal.

558
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,000
And this occupied, essentially, zero frequency.

559
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:06,001
You have a very narrow band signal,
which means in your

560
00:35:06,001 --> 00:35:10,000
equation, it seems, hey,
these are very narrow band.

561
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:16,000
You find that the limitation becomes one
of your ears and hearing things like

562
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,000
that, not the exact filter that you got.

563
00:35:20,001 --> 00:35:23,001
So that became the dominant
way of communicating.

564
00:35:23,001 --> 00:35:27,001
But initially, the radio began to [...
]-done using the squat.

565
00:35:27,001 --> 00:35:29,001
[...] really sent the squat.

566
00:35:29,001 --> 00:35:33,000
It's like the squat wasn't one of the team's,
the squat was not at all.

567
00:35:33,001 --> 00:35:36,001
Produced the noise that you would
see when that was a signal.

568
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,000
And then when they figured out how
to make this thing as a continuous

569
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,000
wave, then it became CW.

570
00:35:42,001 --> 00:35:48,000
And that term has stayed with us,
even though it's not obvious what does someone

571
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,000
mean by CW with the delay.

572
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:50,001
It continues.

573
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:51,001
I got to change it.

574
00:35:51,001 --> 00:35:52,001
I got to turn it on and off.

575
00:35:52,001 --> 00:35:57,001
And so there's a lot of
different ways to do this.

576
00:36:00,001 --> 00:36:05,000
And I'm talking here because I'm trying
to get people interested in this and

577
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,001
saying how little an antenna
that you need to make

578
00:36:10,001 --> 00:36:13,000
contacts off the moon.

579
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:20,000
And I'm saying here that I was
when I started out at the 1296

580
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:26,000
megahertz band,
which is a wavelength of about like that.

581
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:31,001
It's about 30 centimeters actually,
or close to it.

582
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,000
That I started experimenting
with Joe Taylor's digital.

583
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:42,000
And I was amazed that it didn't
take very much to work someone.

584
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,000
Here is an example of one of
the first stations I worked.

585
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,001
I first using digital techniques.

586
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:57,001
And this was with a fellow OH3MCK,
that's his call letters.

587
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,001
He was in Finland.

588
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Okay. Come on.

589
00:37:01,001 --> 00:37:08,000
And he was using 40 watts, where I was
using like a thousand watts or so close to

590
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,000
that to make that contact.

591
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,001
And it becomes much easier.

592
00:37:11,001 --> 00:37:13,001
And I'm just going to give you some example.

593
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,000
This is a relatively small antenna here.

594
00:37:18,001 --> 00:37:22,000
And, of course, when I ask questions,
I say, Where do you think this is

595
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,000
happening in my class?

596
00:37:24,001 --> 00:37:30,000
And of course, the answer to the question
is usually right on the screen, right?

597
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,001
So this obviously happened in the South Pole.

598
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:40,000
This fellow was down here as an experimenter,
not in radio, but down at the South

599
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,001
Pole and he brought his
radio equipment with him.

600
00:37:41,001 --> 00:37:45,001
And he put the South Pole on the 1296 band.

601
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,000
So it's another country,
another continent, Antarctica for people.

602
00:37:50,001 --> 00:37:56,000
And that uses a little antenna that he
stuck out in the south literally and was

603
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,000
down there as well as a German explorer.

604
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,000
And I'm just showing you what's needed.

605
00:38:02,001 --> 00:38:09,001
Here is an antenna from a fellow in Belarus.

606
00:38:11,001 --> 00:38:14,001
And he's got his antenna on his balcony.

607
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,000
He's got a 1.2 meter dish.

608
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:24,000
Actually, he was making contacts on CW
because I don't like to say that you have

609
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,000
to just do things the easy
way or the easier way.

610
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:32,001
You can also work some of these smaller
stations using the old fashioned way with

611
00:38:32,001 --> 00:38:35,001
Morse code or even single
side band in some cases.

612
00:38:38,001 --> 00:38:41,000
And I should correct my self theorem.

613
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,001
She's saying,
What do I mean by single side band?

614
00:38:44,001 --> 00:38:47,000
And how many people know
even knows what I know.

615
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:48,000
I had a question.

616
00:38:48,001 --> 00:38:52,000
Could you explain that something
before you about the lunar land?

617
00:38:53,001 --> 00:38:56,000
Well, what do you want to
know about the lunar lander?

618
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,001
[...] think general population terms.

619
00:39:01,001 --> 00:39:03,001
There's a lot of the work [...] was doing.

620
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,000
Well, I know it's hard for
me to answer that question.

621
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,001
Let me finish this up and I'll come back.

622
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,001
And I'm going to try and
speed up here and finish up.

623
00:39:13,001 --> 00:39:18,001
We're not too bad,
but I got to be done in a few minutes.

624
00:39:18,001 --> 00:39:24,000
I keep on on top of this and I'm going
to continue just showing you small

625
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:31,000
antennas is actually a TV antenna that
someone's developed or applied and

626
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,001
shows that you can work these
very small antennas off the moon.

627
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,000
So you don't have to invest in big antennas.

628
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:44,001
This is a friend of mine. He was a college
student at the time. This picture was

629
00:39:44,001 --> 00:39:51,000
made and he traveled around and
he had this relatively warm

630
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,000
antenna and broke it up and carrying
his car and traveled around Europe

631
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,001
and set up.

632
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,001
He is right now in this picture in Monaco.

633
00:40:02,001 --> 00:40:06,000
So he drove Monaco.
No one's around and drove there late nights we

634
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,001
can set up right in the center of the town.

635
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,000
Took his antenna out stuck it on a
on a a poly to lash it to and went

636
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,000
on to work a bunch of people from Monaco.

637
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,000
I was worried that he might get stopped
or something by the police and he

638
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,001
did that it went all over the place.

639
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,000
And where are places actually I should go.
I can go back.

640
00:40:27,001 --> 00:40:33,001
I was going to go back and this over here.
The picture over here here is here is

641
00:40:33,001 --> 00:40:37,000
him setting the same thing up pulling
the same trick and San Marino.

642
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:44,001
He's not he doesn't do as much now he got
married and this is these all these are

643
00:40:44,001 --> 00:40:49,000
antennas are all at at 23 centimeters. Okay.

644
00:40:49,001 --> 00:40:56,000
That's the 1296 amateur band.
It's a little bit above one gigahertz 1

645
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:02,001
.3 gigahertz would be a you think about
a gigahertz is a thousand megahertz

646
00:41:02,001 --> 00:41:04,000
for every one year and.

647
00:41:04,001 --> 00:41:11,001
So and I even got involved with this.
This shows me right over here when I was

648
00:41:11,001 --> 00:41:17,000
operating in Bermuda and my approach
was not to use the Yagi but to use I've

649
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,000
always got involved since high
school and the stress dishes.

650
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:26,000
So that's a small stress dish that I use
where I was in the parking lot behind

651
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,000
the hotel near their motors.

652
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:35,001
Scooter building I this is just
a thing that to hold umbrellas.

653
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:42,001
So that's where I put my antenna up.
And this is the antenna it the whole thing

654
00:41:42,001 --> 00:41:44,001
was, you know, carry on type luggage.

655
00:41:45,001 --> 00:41:49,001
We took the whole station there and you
can see my wife is cooperative sometimes

656
00:41:49,001 --> 00:41:52,001
moving this so.

657
00:41:52,001 --> 00:41:59,001
So there's all sorts of fun things you can do.
We've done

658
00:41:59,001 --> 00:42:02,001
a number of different countries using this.

659
00:42:03,001 --> 00:42:07,001
I'm just going to show you these just
other examples of small antennas that

660
00:42:07,001 --> 00:42:11,001
people that have used.
We're not talking about this is a meter right.

661
00:42:11,001 --> 00:42:17,000
So we're talking about antennas that are,
you know, are reasonable, the small

662
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,001
size that you can make up and work.
Here's another one.

663
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,001
This one is being used. We've got higher
in frequency. Higher in frequency you

664
00:42:26,001 --> 00:42:32,001
go. The smaller the antennas you can get
by with. But from most radio amateurs,

665
00:42:33,001 --> 00:42:36,001
it's relatively easy to get on 1296 today.

666
00:42:36,001 --> 00:42:41,001
It is readily available. And without my
message here is you don't need a real big

667
00:42:41,001 --> 00:42:48,000
antenna to go out and start making
contacts and working all around the world.

668
00:42:48,001 --> 00:42:55,001
Though I'm showing other options.
This really this slide is really can only

669
00:42:55,001 --> 00:42:59,001
probably be appreciated by people
who are active in amateur radio.

670
00:43:00,001 --> 00:43:07,000
This shows a yaggy antenna. Those things
with those little wires coming out. This

671
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,001
is for three centimeters. So you can't
see it there but the active elements with

672
00:43:11,001 --> 00:43:14,000
little tiny little things are a little stand.

673
00:43:15,001 --> 00:43:20,000
And they're making this yaggy antenna
work at three centimeters and you see

674
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:27,000
signals off the moon.
It's kind of a close up of the antenna.

675
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:32,000
As you can see more of what it is. And

676
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:39,000
there, this is a station in Australia.
He's worked a lot of different places. And

677
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,001
he's used the yaggy antenna to receive
signals up there though most of the time

678
00:43:43,001 --> 00:43:46,000
he uses a dish, I much must say.

679
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:52,001
This is another example of a small antenna.
This one over here is a half a meter.

680
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:58,001
But this was demonstrated at one of the
conferences I was at and he was showing

681
00:43:58,001 --> 00:44:04,000
you could use this half a meter
antenna to receive a beacon station.

682
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,001
That's a station that's continuously
transmitting a signal off the moon, even

683
00:44:08,001 --> 00:44:14,001
though this is only a half a meter in size.
So there are a lot of

684
00:44:14,001 --> 00:44:16,001
possibilities.

685
00:44:17,001 --> 00:44:22,001
Now, I'm going to jump over this.
This talks about digital basics. Some of the

686
00:44:22,001 --> 00:44:27,001
things that should catch your eye here
is W1JR Joe Taylor. He's the one who

687
00:44:27,001 --> 00:44:34,001
started this whole thing off and came
up with this very popular system. By

688
00:44:34,001 --> 00:44:40,001
the way, interesting, we talk about amateur
radio today that this started out in

689
00:44:40,001 --> 00:44:47,000
the RF and microwave frequencies,
but JT digital communications because it's so

690
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,001
easy to do has taken over HF.

691
00:44:49,001 --> 00:44:56,001
And I'd say the majority of HF today is
now being done. I say HF, this is a short

692
00:44:56,001 --> 00:45:01,000
way to answer. People spend their time,
it's easy to work using the atmosphere or

693
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:06,000
long distances, but they've adapted using
digital techniques too because they're

694
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,000
just interested in getting this new country.

695
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:15,000
And if they can do it easily,
digitally easier than using CW or voice, it

696
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:21,000
has become very, very, very, very popular.
And I'm just

697
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:27,000
here getting into some of the practical
aspects of operating digital, what the

698
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:33,000
screen looks like and the information
you have and that you can

699
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,001
make this thing work.

700
00:45:35,001 --> 00:45:41,000
This is some different technologies that
are used depending on the frequency that

701
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:46,000
you're operating at. And this is a mode
that was developed for very, very high

702
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:52,001
frequency and it shows a signal station
that I worked in in Hungary using a

703
00:45:52,001 --> 00:45:54,001
76 centimeter.

704
00:45:54,001 --> 00:46:00,000
So it's about three quarters of a meter
dish on three centimeter, on the three

705
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:05,000
centimeter band. And I can go on and show
other things. This is a station with

706
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:11,001
two Yagi's in Taiwan.
China is, by the way, quite active on EME.

707
00:46:11,001 --> 00:46:18,000
The Chinese have realized the importance
of technology and that amateur radio is

708
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:24,000
a good way to get technology among
their citizens. So now there's a lot of

709
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:30,000
microwave and higher frequency amateur
radio work being done by the Chinese,

710
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,001
which didn't happen before.

711
00:46:33,001 --> 00:46:39,001
And, you know, EME, as I say, is a
fascinating propagation. I'm giving a lot of

712
00:46:39,001 --> 00:46:44,000
details here that make why if something's
too easy, there's no point in doing

713
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,001
right. So, but it's not that easy.

714
00:46:46,001 --> 00:46:51,000
There are things you've got to know,
there's tricks you have to apply and learn.

715
00:46:51,001 --> 00:46:54,001
When you bounce signal off the moon,
you run through this whole document.

716
00:46:54,001 --> 00:46:56,001
Everyone knows about the train this whistle.

717
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:01,000
You're trained by the frequency of the
whistle changes. The same thing when you

718
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:05,000
bounce the signal off the saddle for the moon,
its frequency changes. So you got

719
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,001
to be able to correct and take
care of the accomplish dip.

720
00:47:08,001 --> 00:47:13,001
You got to understand the effects of sky
noise in the background. You know, you

721
00:47:13,001 --> 00:47:17,000
don't want to operate in the middle of the
Milky Way because a lot of noisy stars

722
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,000
over there when the moon is there.

723
00:47:19,001 --> 00:47:24,001
There are certain frequencies.
There's Faraday rotation, which means the

724
00:47:24,001 --> 00:47:28,001
polarization of your signal. I have a
good way of illustrating this, but it's

725
00:47:28,001 --> 00:47:30,001
rotated when you go through the atmosphere.

726
00:47:30,001 --> 00:47:37,000
In fact, discovered by Faraday,
there is lunar or vibrations, which now

727
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,000
people are smart. They calculate.
This means that depending on the angles and the

728
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:46,001
way the moon is moving,
you get less of this variation.

729
00:47:46,001 --> 00:47:50,001
The signal off the moon is called vibrations
through the walking of the moon. The

730
00:47:50,001 --> 00:47:54,000
moon rocks. It's not obvious.
You look at the orbit of the earth and the

731
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,001
moon. The moon is actually rocking.

732
00:47:55,001 --> 00:48:00,001
And that rocking only takes a little bit
because of the moon's surface is not

733
00:48:00,001 --> 00:48:04,001
smooth. And that changes the
signal that comes back to you.

734
00:48:04,001 --> 00:48:10,000
And so you want to operate, if you can,
where the vibration effect is as low,

735
00:48:10,001 --> 00:48:15,000
slow as possible.
So your signal doesn't get all broken up.

736
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:21,001
So this brings me to the end and
the key points that I want to

737
00:48:21,001 --> 00:48:28,000
make here, that EME is challenging,
but all you need is a YAGI or a small dish if

738
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,001
you're an amateur radio operator,
if you're not a radio amateur, or you need to

739
00:48:31,001 --> 00:48:33,001
get your license,
then you can do this relatively easy.

740
00:48:33,001 --> 00:48:38,000
Well, you can use your tech license for
these frequencies and you can still be a

741
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:44,000
big gun, as they say.
It's pretty easy with big stations, but there's

742
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,000
still a lot to it.

743
00:48:46,001 --> 00:48:50,000
And I just illustrate some of the things
I was saying before, accurate frequency,

744
00:48:50,001 --> 00:48:54,001
time. You got to be able to point your
antenna at the moon. You got to consider

745
00:48:54,001 --> 00:48:58,000
the Doppler effect.
You got to consider polarization effects.

746
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:03,000
They will enter into the playing the game.
So you got to get out besides the

747
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:07,001
rules. You've got to understand how
to apply the rules to be effective.

748
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:14,001
But a weak station, all the above,
plus must understand how to use the using

749
00:49:14,001 --> 00:49:20,000
digital technology, understand the limits
of the digital technology that you're

750
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:21,001
using, and you can go further.

751
00:49:24,001 --> 00:49:30,001
And there's a, the rest of this is more
technical. This is just a frequency I'm

752
00:49:30,001 --> 00:49:36,000
telling people to operate on.
I do a newsletter for people to bounce radio

753
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,001
signals off the moon at the higher frequencies.

754
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,001
And that means 432 or 70 centimeters above.
I do this newsletter. I've

755
00:49:44,001 --> 00:49:46,001
been doing it for almost 15 years.

756
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:53,000
And that's just the link to it. Anyone
emails me and be happy to send it. You can

757
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:58,000
just do a search on my call letters and EME,
and you can find the newsletter.

758
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:04,000
It's, it has its own page where it's kept.
And I'm going to stop here.

759
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:06,000
Excuse me.

760
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:13,000
[...] will make up for acting.
Yes, if you go to a particular frequency that a

761
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:20,000
lot of the digital activity is centered
on 70 kilohertz above the frequency.

762
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,001
So, this would be this being 14070.

763
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:29,001
It was 432. Oh, seven, etc.

764
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,001
It's really that first hundred kilohertz
of frequency, because you can operate

765
00:50:35,001 --> 00:50:40,000
over a very narrow bandwidth,
and people will spread out. That's kind of like

766
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,001
where you don't know, you're on your own
opinions and you look at all second.

767
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,001
Question and your question
was on the lunar lander.

768
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,001
Well, the lunar lander,
I don't think is operational right now.

769
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:05,001
It was, but when they left the module on.

770
00:51:06,001 --> 00:51:07,001
They didn't.

771
00:51:08,001 --> 00:51:12,001
I'm trying to remember the things I left
on the moon. They didn't leave the lunar

772
00:51:12,001 --> 00:51:19,000
lander went back up, but they didn't
leave some interesting items on the

773
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,000
moon that help communications.

774
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,001
Offered these boxes on the moon.

775
00:51:27,001 --> 00:51:30,001
[...]

776
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,001
It's really great keynote here.

777
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,000
But when you have a signal, what's up?

778
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:42,000
The room,
they have these types of triangular type boxes.

779
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:43,001
It's very interesting.

780
00:51:43,001 --> 00:51:50,001
Basically, it's this three dimensional box,
and it's reflected

781
00:51:50,001 --> 00:51:53,000
on its reflected back in the same direction.

782
00:51:54,001 --> 00:51:57,001
So, if you're never designed for lasers.

783
00:51:58,001 --> 00:52:04,000
So if you send a laser up, if you have
a high power laser and hit one of these

784
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,001
reflectors that are left on the moon,
you can make very accurate measurements.

785
00:52:08,001 --> 00:52:13,000
The time it takes to send the laser to
move up there and those are still present

786
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,001
and working on the moon.

787
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:21,001
I don't know if an interesting putting
transmitters and repeaters on the moon

788
00:52:21,001 --> 00:52:26,000
itself, but I don't know if any
repeaters on the moon right now

789
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:27,001
that are currently working.

790
00:52:27,001 --> 00:52:29,000
That's something [...]

791
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:35,000
It's not that going well, who was interested
in doing the repeater on the moon.

792
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:35,001
We're excited.

793
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:37,000
The sun was interesting.

794
00:52:37,001 --> 00:52:40,001
[...
] before it did they actually have a repeat.

795
00:52:40,001 --> 00:52:44,001
No, there was a fella was since
passed away Nick Marshall.

796
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,000
But he said, well,
we tried this whole project movement.

797
00:52:48,001 --> 00:52:50,000
And we tried to get funding.

798
00:52:50,001 --> 00:52:54,000
But the repeater on the moon itself.

799
00:52:54,001 --> 00:52:56,001
You know, there's a lot.

800
00:52:56,001 --> 00:52:59,000
We don't have time.

801
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,000
I'm up to sit here and talk about satellites.

802
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:05,001
Like you probably have
never heard of the launch.

803
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,001
[...] this launch?

804
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,000
We got a few people.

805
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,000
Most of you do not know the launch.

806
00:53:12,001 --> 00:53:15,000
Those are points that are people.

807
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,001
[...] stable points.

808
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:21,000
You go in order to stay there.

809
00:53:21,001 --> 00:53:24,000
And there are a bunch of launch
points around the earth.

810
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,001
Space junk accumulates in the launch points.

811
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,001
And so those are our spots
for you to put repeaters on.

812
00:53:33,001 --> 00:53:35,000
Our latest telescope.

813
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:36,001
Yes.

814
00:53:36,001 --> 00:53:37,001
It's in the launch.

815
00:53:38,001 --> 00:53:39,000
[...]

816
00:53:40,001 --> 00:53:41,000
I know.

817
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:42,000
I'm not [...]

818
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:42,001
[...]

819
00:53:42,001 --> 00:53:42,001
[...] self-hierd.

820
00:53:42,001 --> 00:53:45,000
So there are always interesting things.

821
00:53:45,001 --> 00:53:49,000
I can talk about anomalies here.

822
00:53:49,001 --> 00:53:50,000
You want to hear things.

823
00:53:50,001 --> 00:53:50,001
He likes.

824
00:53:52,001 --> 00:53:54,000
Things that we can't explain.

825
00:53:54,001 --> 00:53:55,001
When in fact.

826
00:53:56,001 --> 00:53:58,000
He was Apollo 13.

827
00:53:59,000 --> 00:53:59,001
And a group of us.

828
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,000
T-C-M-J.

829
00:54:03,001 --> 00:54:06,000
And we set up the Apollo astronauts.

830
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,000
And they went around.

831
00:54:09,001 --> 00:54:11,000
Quite a few years ago.

832
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,000
More than 25 years ago.

833
00:54:14,001 --> 00:54:16,000
And we set up a dish.

834
00:54:17,001 --> 00:54:19,001
A whole life lost for
clothesline for a lot of years.

835
00:54:20,001 --> 00:54:21,001
The clothesline.

836
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,001
We put the dish on top of the clothesline.

837
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:25,001
The ropes.

838
00:54:26,001 --> 00:54:27,001
How much room?

839
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,001
Don't forget those.

840
00:54:32,001 --> 00:54:34,000
[...] set up.

841
00:54:34,001 --> 00:54:34,001
[...] are the ones that we set up.

842
00:54:34,001 --> 00:54:34,001
They are the ones that we set up.

843
00:54:34,001 --> 00:54:35,000
They are the ones that we set up.

844
00:54:35,001 --> 00:54:37,000
And they put this dish up there.

845
00:54:37,001 --> 00:54:39,000
And there's three of the [...]

846
00:54:39,001 --> 00:54:42,000
And four of them are based before the ones.

847
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,000
And you're watching this.

848
00:54:43,001 --> 00:54:44,001
And this is true.

849
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:46,000
And one day we were.

850
00:54:46,001 --> 00:54:47,000
We picked up.

851
00:54:47,001 --> 00:54:48,000
We actually hear the asking.

852
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:49,001
And they had this.

853
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,000
And they open the sub.

854
00:54:52,001 --> 00:54:52,001
And so.

855
00:54:54,001 --> 00:54:55,001
So let me show you an information.

856
00:54:55,001 --> 00:54:56,001
[...]

857
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:57,001
[...] voice channel.

858
00:54:58,001 --> 00:54:59,000
That's up.

859
00:55:01,001 --> 00:55:02,001
Is the astronauts.

860
00:55:03,001 --> 00:55:04,000
We have a little.

861
00:55:04,001 --> 00:55:04,001
Displaced.

862
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:05,001
We see the spectrum.

863
00:55:07,001 --> 00:55:08,001
And we're sitting there.

864
00:55:10,001 --> 00:55:11,001
And.

865
00:55:11,001 --> 00:55:12,000
[...]

866
00:55:12,001 --> 00:55:13,000
[...]

867
00:55:13,001 --> 00:55:14,000
You know, which are.

868
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:15,001
Invisible, but they're not new.

869
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,000
They all go up.

870
00:55:17,001 --> 00:55:18,000
Just like this.

871
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:20,001
They went up off the screen.

872
00:55:21,001 --> 00:55:23,000
And after that we were using that.

873
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,000
[...]

874
00:55:25,001 --> 00:55:25,001
[...]

875
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:29,000
It's not very long.

876
00:55:31,001 --> 00:55:32,001
And we don't know.

877
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:33,000
How.

878
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,000
What we understand.

879
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:36,001
What.

880
00:55:37,001 --> 00:55:37,001
[...]

881
00:55:37,001 --> 00:55:37,001
[...]

882
00:55:37,001 --> 00:55:37,001
[...]

883
00:55:38,001 --> 00:55:39,001
That signal.

884
00:55:41,001 --> 00:55:42,000
And this was.

885
00:55:43,001 --> 00:55:44,001
We were.

886
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,000
We were listening to.

887
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:48,001
What?

888
00:55:48,001 --> 00:55:49,000
[...]

889
00:55:49,001 --> 00:55:51,000
Cause that.

890
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,001
In terms of.

891
00:55:54,001 --> 00:55:54,001
That's the [...]

892
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:56,000
[...]

893
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:57,000
A thousand times.

894
00:56:00,001 --> 00:56:03,000
I don't have any.

895
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:04,001
I don't have any.

896
00:56:04,001 --> 00:56:05,000
Thought about.

897
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:06,000
[...]

898
00:56:07,001 --> 00:56:07,001
[...]

899
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,000
[...]

900
00:56:11,001 --> 00:56:12,000
Never.

901
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:15,000
[...]

902
00:56:15,001 --> 00:56:16,001
Cause that.

903
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,000
There are a bunch of people.

904
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:18,001
It wasn't.

905
00:56:18,001 --> 00:56:19,000
It wasn't just me.

906
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,001
We must have about seven people.

907
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:23,000
That's the sort of.

908
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:24,000
This happened.

909
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:27,000
And that's one of the things that I've seen.

910
00:56:27,001 --> 00:56:29,000
I have no explanation of.

911
00:56:29,001 --> 00:56:31,000
There's no question.

912
00:56:32,001 --> 00:56:33,001
I think physically happening.

913
00:56:34,001 --> 00:56:35,001
It wasn't something that the wire.

914
00:56:36,001 --> 00:56:37,000
[...]

915
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:38,001
[...]

916
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,000
There's a lot of strange
things still happening.

917
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,001
We can [...]

918
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:46,001
I know.

919
00:56:46,001 --> 00:56:48,000
I think I should end this now.

920
00:56:48,001 --> 00:56:49,000
My time point.

921
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:50,000
We want to make sure we.

922
00:56:50,001 --> 00:56:51,000
We get to the.

923
00:56:52,001 --> 00:56:53,001
The keynote.

924
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,000
After the keynote.

925
00:56:55,001 --> 00:56:57,001
We're going to have a.

926
00:56:59,001 --> 00:57:00,001
A interactive forum.

927
00:57:01,001 --> 00:57:04,001
We're going to bring out what's
left of our refreshments out there.

928
00:57:04,001 --> 00:57:06,001
So you got something to eat if
you're staying for the banquet.

929
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:08,001
But you're welcome.

930
00:57:08,001 --> 00:57:11,000
You don't have to go to
the banquet to stay there.

931
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:12,001
We're going to run an interactive format.

932
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:13,000
Forum.

933
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,000
This for people that are here.

934
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,001
We're going to talk about
electric cars and get everyone.

935
00:57:18,001 --> 00:57:20,001
Let them have their two cents.

936
00:57:21,001 --> 00:57:21,001
You know what?

937
00:57:21,001 --> 00:57:25,001
There's a lot of different opinions on
cars and a lot of the people in the

938
00:57:25,001 --> 00:57:28,001
audience have strong opinions.

939
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,001
They have different directions
than just our speakers.

940
00:57:31,001 --> 00:57:32,001
They listened to the speaker.

941
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,001
So we're going to give everyone a
chance to get involved and express

942
00:57:36,001 --> 00:57:38,000
their opinions at that time.

943
00:57:38,001 --> 00:57:39,000
Thank you.

944
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:50,000
Thank you.